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	<title>Comments on: iPhone specific web sites &#8212; do they make sense?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/</link>
	<description>Entrepreneurship, web technology and the user experience</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 04:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ashley Sheridan</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley Sheridan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-382</guid>
		<description>Jeff Croft mentions a lot of points why viewing "normal" sites on the iPhone is sometimes only passable. Sorry, but Apple have been touting this for ages as the first phone with a "fully-fledged" browser on-board. I'm able to browse sites just fine on my LG Shine using Opera Mini Browser, and with the exception of typing (which is always going to be difficult on ANY hand-held device), browsing the web is a pleasant experience. I don't see why developers should be forced to cater for the iPhone because Apple rushed it and said goodbye to usability.
Clearly, from looking at preliminary statistics, it is obvious that rather than focus on iPhone specific design, we should develop for mobile phones. Period. The iPhone is not ready, it doesn't have a Flash player, it can't handle Java (which most modern phones can do), navigation is an issue if you have fat fingers (and with populations in the locations the iPhone is sold getting larger, this IS an issue,) where do I stop?
In short, developing websites according to standards never got anyone fired, but trying to develop for new, unknown technology that is not ready for the market did. Enough said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff Croft mentions a lot of points why viewing &#8220;normal&#8221; sites on the iPhone is sometimes only passable. Sorry, but Apple have been touting this for ages as the first phone with a &#8220;fully-fledged&#8221; browser on-board. I&#8217;m able to browse sites just fine on my LG Shine using Opera Mini Browser, and with the exception of typing (which is always going to be difficult on ANY hand-held device), browsing the web is a pleasant experience. I don&#8217;t see why developers should be forced to cater for the iPhone because Apple rushed it and said goodbye to usability.<br />
Clearly, from looking at preliminary statistics, it is obvious that rather than focus on iPhone specific design, we should develop for mobile phones. Period. The iPhone is not ready, it doesn&#8217;t have a Flash player, it can&#8217;t handle Java (which most modern phones can do), navigation is an issue if you have fat fingers (and with populations in the locations the iPhone is sold getting larger, this IS an issue,) where do I stop?<br />
In short, developing websites according to standards never got anyone fired, but trying to develop for new, unknown technology that is not ready for the market did. Enough said.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Kleppmann</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kleppmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Pete -- that is indeed right, there is no Flash player on the iPhone at the moment (although rumor has it that it will be coming at some point). This means that a lot of sites which rely on Flash are simply not going to work on the iPhone. YouTube, for example, uses Flash on its standard website -- for the iPhone, however, the videos have to be translated to the H.264 video standard. This sort of translation is possible for some types of content, but it definitely adds another level of complexity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete &#8212; that is indeed right, there is no Flash player on the iPhone at the moment (although rumor has it that it will be coming at some point). This means that a lot of sites which rely on Flash are simply not going to work on the iPhone. YouTube, for example, uses Flash on its standard website &#8212; for the iPhone, however, the videos have to be translated to the H.264 video standard. This sort of translation is possible for some types of content, but it definitely adds another level of complexity.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Feb 2008 23:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-338</guid>
		<description>What does Jeff Croft mean when he says "On the iPhone, you don’t have access to Flash or Java bits" - does he mean the iPhone doesn't have a Flash player?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does Jeff Croft mean when he says &#8220;On the iPhone, you don’t have access to Flash or Java bits&#8221; - does he mean the iPhone doesn&#8217;t have a Flash player?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Croft</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-236</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Croft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-236</guid>
		<description>One of the most important things to understand about ANY kind of design is context. How, when, why, and where will this product be used, and how does the answer to those questions affect what makes good design? There are several things that are very unique about the iPhone (and possibly copycat devices like it) that give it unique context. In order to do the best possible design for the iPhone, you need to design for this context.  For example:

* On the iPhone, you "click" with your fat fingers. Links and buttons may need to be bigger to accomodate this.
* On the iPhone, you have to scroll the page around a lot more than you do on a large desktop screen. Ideally, you design for minimal scrolling on the iPhone.
* On the iPhone, typing is much more painful than on a desktop computer, and you can't copy/past. Because of this, you may design forms with more select/radio type fields, rather than text input.
* On the iPhone, you don't have access to Flash or Java bits.
* Etc.

The mobile context (for both the iphone and other mobile devices) has several unique aspects, too.

The point of doing specific designs for iPhone is that we recognize the unique context iPhone users are in when they visit our sites, and we want to give them the best possible experience for that context.

Are iPhone-specific sites necessary? No. The iPhone can browse websites designed for desktop computers in a totally passable way. But, for some of us, "passable" isn't good enough. The only way to make something that kicks ass on iPhone is to design for iPhone. Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the most important things to understand about ANY kind of design is context. How, when, why, and where will this product be used, and how does the answer to those questions affect what makes good design? There are several things that are very unique about the iPhone (and possibly copycat devices like it) that give it unique context. In order to do the best possible design for the iPhone, you need to design for this context.  For example:</p>
<p>* On the iPhone, you &#8220;click&#8221; with your fat fingers. Links and buttons may need to be bigger to accomodate this.<br />
* On the iPhone, you have to scroll the page around a lot more than you do on a large desktop screen. Ideally, you design for minimal scrolling on the iPhone.<br />
* On the iPhone, typing is much more painful than on a desktop computer, and you can&#8217;t copy/past. Because of this, you may design forms with more select/radio type fields, rather than text input.<br />
* On the iPhone, you don&#8217;t have access to Flash or Java bits.<br />
* Etc.</p>
<p>The mobile context (for both the iphone and other mobile devices) has several unique aspects, too.</p>
<p>The point of doing specific designs for iPhone is that we recognize the unique context iPhone users are in when they visit our sites, and we want to give them the best possible experience for that context.</p>
<p>Are iPhone-specific sites necessary? No. The iPhone can browse websites designed for desktop computers in a totally passable way. But, for some of us, &#8220;passable&#8221; isn&#8217;t good enough. The only way to make something that kicks ass on iPhone is to design for iPhone. Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Understanding Google Maps &#38; Yahoo Local Search &#187; Local Links of Interest &#124; Developing Knowledge about Local Search</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Understanding Google Maps &#38; Yahoo Local Search &#187; Local Links of Interest &#124; Developing Knowledge about Local Search</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 19:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-221</guid>
		<description>[...] iPhone specific web sites — do they make sense? - Martin Kleppmann, Yes-No-Cancel Bill Gates and Company Want to Watch You Watch TV, Buy Groceries, and Use Your Credit Cards and Cell Phone (and Take Notes) - Bill Slawsk, SEOByTheSeal  &#171; Google Maps gaining market share vs. MapQuest&#160;&#8211;&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] iPhone specific web sites — do they make sense? - Martin Kleppmann, Yes-No-Cancel Bill Gates and Company Want to Watch You Watch TV, Buy Groceries, and Use Your Credit Cards and Cell Phone (and Take Notes) - Bill Slawsk, SEOByTheSeal  &laquo; Google Maps gaining market share vs. MapQuest&nbsp;&ndash;&nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Johannes</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>Welll, I still consider the Iphone versions as an attempt to participate in the incredible hype. But since I dislike both the Iphone and Facebook, I better stop my rant here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welll, I still consider the Iphone versions as an attempt to participate in the incredible hype. But since I dislike both the Iphone and Facebook, I better stop my rant here.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Deng</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Deng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 03:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-216</guid>
		<description>Check the dobMobi progress, and you will see the new trend for real mobile web!

dotMobi: http://mtld.mobi
dotMobi (the informal name of mTLD Top Level Domain, Ltd.) was appointed by ICANN as the official global registry for the .mobi top level domain.

dotMobi is backed by leading mobile operators, network device manufacturers and Internet content providers. Our investors include Ericsson, Google, GSM Association, Hutchison, Microsoft, Nokia, Orascom Telecom, Samsung Electronics, Syniverse, T-Mobile, Telefónica Móviles, TIM, Visa and Vodafone.

dotMobi Show cases, try it in your mobile, and you will love it:
google.mobi
msn.mobi
yahoo.mobi
bofa.mobi (Back of America)
Nokia.mobi
AAA.mobi
fox.mobi
foxnews.mobi
quote.mobi
weather.mobi

too much to list here ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check the dobMobi progress, and you will see the new trend for real mobile web!</p>
<p>dotMobi: <a href="http://mtld.mobi" rel="nofollow">http://mtld.mobi</a><br />
dotMobi (the informal name of mTLD Top Level Domain, Ltd.) was appointed by ICANN as the official global registry for the .mobi top level domain.</p>
<p>dotMobi is backed by leading mobile operators, network device manufacturers and Internet content providers. Our investors include Ericsson, Google, GSM Association, Hutchison, Microsoft, Nokia, Orascom Telecom, Samsung Electronics, Syniverse, T-Mobile, Telefónica Móviles, TIM, Visa and Vodafone.</p>
<p>dotMobi Show cases, try it in your mobile, and you will love it:<br />
google.mobi<br />
msn.mobi<br />
yahoo.mobi<br />
bofa.mobi (Back of America)<br />
Nokia.mobi<br />
AAA.mobi<br />
fox.mobi<br />
foxnews.mobi<br />
quote.mobi<br />
weather.mobi</p>
<p>too much to list here &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Kleppmann</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-214</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kleppmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-214</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments.

@Andrew -- I've corrected the link.

@Johannes -- I fully agree that there is a need for mobile-adapted design, and that it should take precedence over an iPhone-specific design. And in defence of the websites mentioned above, at least Amazon and Facebook already offer good sites for general mobile use (slim and compact pages, mobile-appropriate navigation) -- not sure about the others. They've already got the general mobile users sorted out and still have cash left to spend, so they go a step further and make the iPhone version as a kind of intermediate between mobile and desktop (still a single-column layout, but with a more fancy design).

The separation of content, design and technology isn't quite that simple though, due to the huge variation in phone browsers' capabilities. Some browsers have very restrictive limitations, and these may affect the possible range of content if you don't want to simply settle for the lowest common denominator. A second point is that navigation needs to be structured differently in a mobile site (in a nutshell, you can't have as many links in a page as you could have in a desktop site). One day there will be frameworks which allow you to separate all these things cleanly, but I don't think we're there yet. At the moment, they really are different versions, merely drawing from the same data sources.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>@Andrew &#8212; I&#8217;ve corrected the link.</p>
<p>@Johannes &#8212; I fully agree that there is a need for mobile-adapted design, and that it should take precedence over an iPhone-specific design. And in defence of the websites mentioned above, at least Amazon and Facebook already offer good sites for general mobile use (slim and compact pages, mobile-appropriate navigation) &#8212; not sure about the others. They&#8217;ve already got the general mobile users sorted out and still have cash left to spend, so they go a step further and make the iPhone version as a kind of intermediate between mobile and desktop (still a single-column layout, but with a more fancy design).</p>
<p>The separation of content, design and technology isn&#8217;t quite that simple though, due to the huge variation in phone browsers&#8217; capabilities. Some browsers have very restrictive limitations, and these may affect the possible range of content if you don&#8217;t want to simply settle for the lowest common denominator. A second point is that navigation needs to be structured differently in a mobile site (in a nutshell, you can&#8217;t have as many links in a page as you could have in a desktop site). One day there will be frameworks which allow you to separate all these things cleanly, but I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re there yet. At the moment, they really are different versions, merely drawing from the same data sources.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-213</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 11:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-213</guid>
		<description>I think that with reference to your Netvibes URL, the correct URL is in fact http://iphone.netvibes.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that with reference to your Netvibes URL, the correct URL is in fact <a href="http://iphone.netvibes.com/" rel="nofollow">http://iphone.netvibes.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Johannes</title>
		<link>http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Johannes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yes-no-cancel.co.uk/2008/01/05/iphone-specific-web-sites-do-they-make-sense/#comment-211</guid>
		<description>I'd love to point out two statements of your analysis: First, the ability of Safari Mobile to tackle "desktop" web sites and second, the incredible hype about the Iphone. 

About the second point: I think that Iphone craze is not only about the device but also about the possibilities it offers (like e.g. direct Itunes connection and mobile internet connection via hotspots). Granted, the Iphone IS sexy as a gadget. But comparably to the introduction of the Ipod, people will soon notice that Apple is neither the only nor the best manufacturer of multifunctional bling-bling. Even worse, the Iphone has quickly gained the aura of "really cool, but mindlessly expensive and technically premature" which Apple managed to avert from the starting Ipod years earlier.

So, what will survive from the gigahype? The Iphone as an early adopter's toy: Interesting right now, but no more than a smartphone among others within a year or two. And, much more important: Mobile services for everyone. Apple clearly was one of the pioneers, bringing the matter to the public. But others will come along with cheaper devices and cheaper rates, allowing the phenomenon to spread.

About the first point from above: Since Safari handles normal web sites, I cannot see a particular need for special *Iphone* web design. But: I see the need for *mobile* web development. (That's the point where you Ept guys come in.) Which does not mean that web pages will have to be rewritten from scratch - in most cases only graphically redesigned. On the other hand there will arise web services which will only make sense in a mobile web context (like e.g. a bakery locator or tourist information).

So the overall goal must be to strictly separate content, design and technical background (like scripts) of a web site. This way, your informations will be adaptable to perfectly match any interface, be it a computer, a smart phone, a screen reader or your printer. Special versions no, special design yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to point out two statements of your analysis: First, the ability of Safari Mobile to tackle &#8220;desktop&#8221; web sites and second, the incredible hype about the Iphone. </p>
<p>About the second point: I think that Iphone craze is not only about the device but also about the possibilities it offers (like e.g. direct Itunes connection and mobile internet connection via hotspots). Granted, the Iphone IS sexy as a gadget. But comparably to the introduction of the Ipod, people will soon notice that Apple is neither the only nor the best manufacturer of multifunctional bling-bling. Even worse, the Iphone has quickly gained the aura of &#8220;really cool, but mindlessly expensive and technically premature&#8221; which Apple managed to avert from the starting Ipod years earlier.</p>
<p>So, what will survive from the gigahype? The Iphone as an early adopter&#8217;s toy: Interesting right now, but no more than a smartphone among others within a year or two. And, much more important: Mobile services for everyone. Apple clearly was one of the pioneers, bringing the matter to the public. But others will come along with cheaper devices and cheaper rates, allowing the phenomenon to spread.</p>
<p>About the first point from above: Since Safari handles normal web sites, I cannot see a particular need for special *Iphone* web design. But: I see the need for *mobile* web development. (That&#8217;s the point where you Ept guys come in.) Which does not mean that web pages will have to be rewritten from scratch - in most cases only graphically redesigned. On the other hand there will arise web services which will only make sense in a mobile web context (like e.g. a bakery locator or tourist information).</p>
<p>So the overall goal must be to strictly separate content, design and technical background (like scripts) of a web site. This way, your informations will be adaptable to perfectly match any interface, be it a computer, a smart phone, a screen reader or your printer. Special versions no, special design yes.</p>
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